Sunday, February 4, 2007

What do you think?

Hello,


Just a couple of quick things, finally have moved in to my new house which has a garden! So i was able to sit in the sun with wireless internet, hey, if you have to sit in an office and work may as well make it as nice as possible!
One more thing, without any influence I would like you to look at the picture of the sign below and leave a comment (just click the comments thing at the bottom of this post) on what you think it means. When can cycles use the space? Its been confusing us and we'd like your help.
Hope you can help and that you had a great weekend!


Will and Ben

15 comments:

Mr Cool Ice said...

Allowed all day Sunday and otherwise between 4.30pm and 10.30 am?

Nige said...

First and foremost I think its No Vehicles except bikes, but they have to be pushed (according to highway code) can the council confirm this for you guys?

Ben and Will said...

It's a funny one, if we were loading or dropping passengers what would it mean?

Tone said...

The top part of the sign says what it is: A pedestrain zone where vehicles are prohibited.

The middle part gives the exceptions with times:

1.Cycles at any time and in any way.

2.Transport for disabled at any time and in any way.

3. Vehicles only within certain times and never on Sundays.

The bottom part gives an overall prohibition for vehicles:

No waiting at any time.

It seems to me that you could ride a bike through this sign at any time as you could for use of a disabled vehicle. But you could only take a vehicle that carries road tax at certain times and never on a Sunday.

There is a difference between cycles and cycling. If the act of cycling is to be prohibited it should have a cicular sign with a black cycle on a white background within an outer red circle (Highway Code Traffic Signs). There is no such sign here.

Ben and Will said...

interesting, i read it to be similar but with vehicles allowed on a sunday

Tim said...

Cycle Hereford understand that the sign means that you can cycle through High Town and Commercial Street, in both directions, before 10.30am and after 4.30pm Mon-Sat and all day Sunday. This is what the Council advise the Police. The all day Sunday is to be restricted as per the rest of the week at some point in the next year (as dictated by Cllr Wilcox). The timing also applies to the upper part of the part time pedestrianised Widemarsh Street and High Street. I don't think they thought about Pedicabs when they made the order but I would have thought that its a bicycle until it has an engine, so these rules would apply to you. More info at www.cyclehereford.com

Anonymous said...

if a sign is unclear then how can it be enforced

Tone said...

If what Tim says is right then vehicles for invalids would also be excluded during the same hours. This is a contradiction.

The anonymous comment represents reality here. Without clarity there can be no enforcement.

Ben and Will said...

Looks like what Tim said was right, as confirmed by the Police this afternoon. High town here we come!

Tim said...

High Town here we come? Won't you be banned between 10.30am and 4.30pm like all us other cyclists?

Ben and Will said...

Yes we will during those hours Tim but we are thinking positive! There must be scope for a slow moving highly visable service that benefits tourism and promotes Hereford to have access to high town!

Tone said...

The sign is not the only part of this prohibition order. There is also a traffic order that would have been made by the Council. It is the traffic order that is the law, but it can only be enforced if the sign is clear in translating that order. Think of it in terms of a 30mph limit. First the order is made, then the signs are erected. If the signs are wrong (29mph or they are blue in instead of white eg) then enforcement is problematic.

Tim said...

I think you'll find the order says what I have already said. This is something Cycle Hereford have spent a lot of time on over the last couple of years so we're pretty familiar with a lot of the orders. That said, your statement is correct and a case in point is Gwynne Street, although it says No Entry next to the Bishops Palace, the Council forgot to add 'Bicycles Excepted', two way cycling is allowed. There are dozens of cases like this, a legacy from the old Hereford City Council. I'd love to see a blanket exception for Ben and Will because this will be a high visibility project which hopefully will demonstrate that cyclists and pedestrians can use the same space without ridiculous demarcation of spaces and accompanying petty bureaucracy.

Ben and Will said...

It might just happen!

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